The Type A+ Podcast Episode 48 - How to Optimize Everything with Kerry Anne Hoffman of So Very Kerry
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Episode Description:
This week, Beth chats with Project Manager Kerry Anne Hoffman about Type A+ project management, personal branding and how to make the ordinary extraordinary with Rent the Runway!
Bonus: Kerry lets us in on her secret rating system for, quite literally, everything in her life, including her travel tips, favorite restaurants and recipes.
About Kerry:
Kerry Hoffman is a Project Manager & Operations Expert with over 10 years experience across several industries and company types. She currently runs her own consulting business, So Very Kerry, where she serves as an Independent Project Manager specializing in company mergers & acquisitions and website rebrands. She's also an Asana Ambassador and works with several companies to implement and up-level their use of the project management tool. When she's not engaging in professional organization, she can be found traveling, food crawling through Brooklyn, exercising, and renting the latest fashions from Rent the Runway!
Links mentioned in the episode:
WEBSITE:
The Type A Plus Podcast Instagram
HOST:
Beth Lawrence & Company Instagram
Beth and other Type A+ Guests will be back each week, delivering bite-sized tips on how to optimize your work and life.
GUEST:
Links:
Rent the Runway: Use code RTRFAM130D828 at checkout. You’ll get 40% off 2 months of an 8, 12 or 16 item membership.
Episode Transcript can be found below:
Beth Lawrence: Hi type a plus listeners. This is Beth Lawrence, your host of the type a plus podcast. And I'm extremely excited to introduce you to Kerry Hoffman. Kerry Hoffman is a project manager, very type a plus person. I loved reading everything about her, but I will let her introduce herself.
Kerry Hoffman: Thank you so much for having me. I'm Kerry Hoffman. I have been a project manager for 12 years now, sort of fell into the role of project manager after graduating from law school and deciding that I didn't quite want to pursue law, but I think I've always been a project manager in my heart.
And so I remember growing up, my mom said, you need to find a job where Your job is to be yourself, and I, I think that's where I've landed.
Beth Lawrence: Oh my gosh, that is so funny. We are very similar in that way. I wanted to be an English professor, and then I went to college, really excited to do it, and I took one class, and the professor said that he had taught Hamlet 30 years, and I thought, that's not for me.
And once I pursued event planning, my parents actually were like, Oh my God, you were born to do this. So that's so funny that you too found something that's so aligned with you.
And you went to law school. That is incredible. Tell me about that experience as a type A person and then possibly realizing that that wasn't the path for you.
Kerry Hoffman: My dad was an attorney, and I worked in his office in high school over the summers. I organized documents when that was a physical job, because it was papers and binders, and I had a conference room.
And, you know, our personalities always seemed aligned. And so I thought, well, he seems to like this job. We seem similar. I will also like this job. And that was kind of the extent of my research into law, which was probably not enough. And so it also just felt like, I'm sure. College students feel this way when they're approaching graduation, right?
If you're a type a person, you want a plan. And, you know, I had a professor who said you should all take a year off and work on a boat and see the world. And I thought, well, that does not sound like it comes with a career afterwards. I need a plan and law school, three years of law school, get a job, be in an industry.
Felt like a plan. So I executed on that
Beth Lawrence: plan. Wow. Oh my goodness. I feel like we graduated in the same Realm in the same time or at least heard the same speeches because it was the same exact thing It was like take a year off and volunteer and I remember my parents like looking at me You know from across the seating being like that doesn't apply to you Like we need to figure out what's going on after this because you have student loans and you know, you had a plan.
And I totally empathize Especially law feeling like, like the ultimate plan, right? You're like, okay, well, this is set for me. I'm going to have this career that I will be really good at, that I will love and that I will, make good money at and make an impact. So, tell me about what it was like to start your own consulting business.
You and I were talking via email and I talked about. The fact that I think for type A people, it can be a double edged sword starting your own consulting business, A and B, also naming it after yourself. So talk a little bit about that.
Kerry Hoffman: Yeah. So in high school.
Your friends would decorate your locker for your birthday. They'd put wrapping paper on it and balloons on it. And if you had really good friends, they would know the locker code and also decorate the inside of your locker. And my friend for my birthday, she had cut out of a magazine. There was an article about.
Keri Russell, who I am actually a very big fan of because I love the show Felicity. And, but she spells it differently, right? Felicity is the best. She spells it K E R I. And the article was called So Very Keri. So my friend cut that out and then added an R Y, so it was spelled correctly. And so I changed my AOL screen name to So very Kerry and then when Instagram came around I became so very Kerry and so I just kind of stuck with this So very Kerry it's been who I am and so when thinking about Even starting a website before I started a business, I just didn't want to think of anything new because everything was already so entrenched in so very carry.
And so I started working on a few projects while I had a full time job. I was helping individuals one on one add organization to their lives. And then I was also working with small teams that were looking to add a little bit more. project management when there wasn't a project manager in the role.
And I wondered, can I ever do this full time? But I truly believe that side hustles are on the side. You cannot mimic what it would be like to do it full time until you do it full time. And so when I got laid off in January, People were getting laid off from jobs, what felt like left and right in the tech industry.
I thought, you know what, this is the time to try this because I don't want to get another job that I'm going to get laid off from. Let's see if So Very Kerry could actually be full time work.
Beth Lawrence: Wow. Oh my gosh. So much to unpack there. First of all, Felicity, one of the best shows ever. I rewatched it last year and it, it holds up.
Are you a Ben or a Noah person?
Kerry Hoffman: I know I was going to ask you that, too, because I'm worried it will end our podcast. I'm a, I'm a knoll.
Beth Lawrence: I think, so it's funny because Beth, when I first watched it, was totally a Ben, right? It's almost like if you watch Sex and the City, it's like, Big versus Aiden.
Like I was a Big. Yes. And now growing up looking back, I'm more of an Aiden and growing up looking back, I think I'm more, I'm leaning, I love Noel. I don't, I think Ben to me is the far more physically attractive. But you know, I think that Noel was so, so attractive. Super good for Felicity. I love that show.
We could probably have an entire deep dive podcast about it. And I love that Keri Russell was one of the impetus to start your own business and name it after yourself. And two, one of the things that I saw on your website that I really loved is you talked about how your personality can be overwhelming to some people.
And I always felt that way too, because, when you're so excited about what you do and when you're so passionate. People can sometimes be very taken aback, especially if you're in an operations role, which is much more. structured. So that's very funny that you can, I love that you can align your personal branding with what you do in that way.
Has it been difficult feeling like everything is on your shoulders in a very real way as a type a person with your own consulting business?
Kerry Hoffman: What I love about consulting is I do love that everything is on me and because I am type a and resourceful. I know what I know. I know what I don't know. And I...
know how to get information that I don't already have. And so I remember having a play date when I was like eight or nine, I don't know what we were playing or talking about. And someone asked a question and I said, Oh, well, let's look it up in the encyclopedia. And that was always sort of my go to like, let's look it up in the dictionary.
Let's look it up in the encyclopedia. I was with a friend last night who told the story. He said, I went to the Superbowl when I was four. It's like, wow, that's crazy. I said, who was the halftime show? He goes, oh, I don't know. I said, but you could know. That's information you could get because you could just look up the year that you went.
And then the next time you tell the story, it'll be a better story, which is why I think I'm overwhelming to hang out with because I'm like, interesting story. Let's fix it because it could be better. But I do believe that as a type A person who works on project management, That's really what I'm doing all day is getting resources for other people, aggregating those resources and just knowing who to ask or where to go to find those resources.
And so when you work for yourself, you have to figure out like how to file quarterly estimated taxes. But if you're type A, you know that you don't know, but you know that you have to figure that I like about it, is assembling a team of people I know or don't know that can help me get these answers.
Beth Lawrence: Yes, and you spoke to resourcefulness, and I feel like that absolutely, I think, sets... I've found at least that it sets me apart, and perhaps you can share your experience as well. I think it sets me apart in two work scenarios where someone will come to you and say, well, I couldn't do that, or I couldn't figure it out, or I didn't know how to do it.
And when you're running your own consulting business. There is no one to call. There's no I. T. Department. You know, maybe you have someone who is a consultant or a team that helps you with that. But I feel like the resourcefulness, whether you're a type a person on a team or you have your own business, it really does set you apart because you want to at least have enough knowledge to be able to go where you need to go to figure it out.
And if you can't figure it out, you need to be able to find the right person and be able to be comfortable enough Saying, look, I've taken it this far, but I need your help going that much further. Do you find that the resourcefulness has set you apart in, in previous roles before you went out on your own?
Kerry Hoffman: In probably all of my jobs. I remember describing to a new hire what I did, and she said, Afterward, she said, Oh, so you're the director of miscellaneous and I thought, yes, that is what I do in my role. You know, when I was head of operations for marketing at Class Pass, it would be so hard to write down a very pretty job description of what I did, but what I would tell people I did.
Is I said, we have all of these channel owners that are responsible for getting new users and retaining existing users on Class Pass. And I want every single channel owner to be so focused on their channel, and I will focus on. Everything else, right? Whether it just be that we need a contract renewal with our agency, or we were working on a project to launch in class pass in Montreal, and we needed to figure out ...there is a difference between Canadian and French Canadian as a language, but we needed to figure out. Like, would it be offensive if we only put it in French versus French Canadian, right? Do we have to do French Canadian? Can it just be in English? And some people might say, oh, can't you just Google that?
But you have to get the resources to build a case around that, and maybe that's my law school background of " let me build a case, let me build an argument for why we should or should not go in this direction." and I think that a lot of people would just stop it. I did a search.
I think it's okay, but data should power a lot of your decisions. And that's what I look at resources as their resources can really just be a series of data points.
Beth Lawrence: Yes. Oh my gosh. Data powering your decisions is extremely important. So as someone who, you like to be able to have everyone stay in their lane and basically fill in the gaps where needed. Do you think that that can be a detriment sometimes? Sometimes I find that if I take things on, it's because I'm like, well, I could do it. I could just do it quicker.
I could do it better. I could do it faster. And then all of a sudden you have too much on your plate.
Kerry Hoffman: So I definitely have felt in certain roles that I have made everyone Very comfortable and they know that there's someone kind of taking care of that piece behind the scenes. And I think a challenge that a lot of companies face, particularly small companies is that they can only afford to hire people where there's 1 person who does that 1 thing and.
I was on a committee once for how we were going to make positive changes for the team over the year and we worked on a project to encourage every single team member to make a more robust version of their out of office document that they would leave with someone for a two week vacation.
We're like, let's all do that now. In advance of vacations with instructions. "How do you log into this tool? How do you post on social media?" You know, if that's your role, if you're in charge of social media, right. And so that way everyone could do a little bit of other people's jobs. And so I definitely think as a consultant, what I like about this style of project management is I'm going in to help set teams up for success.
I say I'm here to help you build a bus and then you have to drive the bus. Because that's the problem I've faced in other jobs. I build the bus, then I'm like, you could actually find someone probably at a lower level employee to actually drive the bus, but now I'm also driving the bus and no one else has a license to drive the bus.
Right. And that can be detrimental.
Beth Lawrence: You are speaking my language for sure. Particularly when it comes to building project management systems and softwares, I have absolutely been the one that went into a team and said, okay, what's the problem? Like, where are the challenges? And then figured out the right project management tool that helps make all of those challenges a lot easier.
Spent months and months building it, including trainings and teaching people how to use it. And then I wind up being the only person using it or people say, well, I can use it, but this is a priority or that's a priority. And then you think, well, I just spent all this time building and now I'm driving this bus and where is this bus even going?
Is anyone else even on this bus with me? That is so frustrating. In your bio, you mentioned Asana and when you find a project management tool, you have to stick with that tool. So tell me out of all of the amazing project management tools out there, why Asana?
Kerry Hoffman: You know, I fell into Asana.
I inherited Asana when I started at ClassPass in 2018. I had used it once before at another job, but very low adoption rate. And I'm the type of person when. I start something, I usually go, like, all in, I usually go too far, and so, it's like, oh, I'm going to get into this project management tool, I'm going to learn everything about it, oh, I can apply to be an Asana ambassador, they've invited me to speak at this conference, I'm going to be all about this, and what I love the most about Asana is that they have a very strong community forum. And so in terms of enabling people to get their own resources, there is a lot of, let me just type this into Google and put, you know, Asana custom fields versus tags. And you get the answers that you need. I'm a firm believer though, that the best tool for you is. The tool that you will use.
And so I feel less married. It's just a tool that I know the best and I can help companies implement, but I worked with someone one on one who was just trying to organize her life and she used the notes app on her phone. She had shared notes with her husband, she had all different notes. And we were trying to build some recurring tasks and repeatable processes, but she was obsessed with this notes app and I said, great, we're going to build your system in your notes app because you'll use it.
Not going to convert you onto some tool you don't want to use. And what I would rather happen is. You use it to the point where you broke the notes app and it no longer works for you and then you want to move off of it. And so, look, tools don't build processes. They enable processes. You have to build the process first.
If all you have access to is Google Sheets, then run everything in Google Sheets. And then you might say, look at this amazing sheet. If I use air table, it would be a lot better. Maybe I should use this now. People keep skipping that step though. They jump to the tool, right? Like you can buy a Peloton.
That's not the thing that's going to make you exercise. You're missing a step there.
Beth Lawrence: Yes, you're totally, totally right. And I think the Google sheets, especially for small companies or startups, that's a great solution. I love air table, as I've talked about on the podcast, but, the thing is air table isn't for everyone, and sometimes there's so much going on that you can't necessarily spend too much time reinventing the wheel or building the tool.
In your work with mergers and acquisitions, how important are systems and having your systems in place? How important is it to have your systems in place before you do something like hiring someone or have a major milestone within your organization like a merger and acquisition? What advice would you give?
Kerry Hoffman: What's so interesting about the mergers and acquisitions space, the first one I experienced was when I worked at Seamless, which was acquired by Grubhub about a year after I started, and what's very challenging when you are type A is that there's this period between When they announce the merger acquisition and when the deal is actually finalized. And that, that can be a pretty long time at our company was almost three months and one of the committees I was on was actually just to plan a party for the acquisition. And me and a colleague were in a flight to Chicago to meet with the team at Grubhub to plan this party.
And then we actually ended up canceling the trip because. We were told this is not a finalized deal. You can't be meeting in person, right? You can't be sharing resources. You can't be sharing this information. And it's not until the deal is finalized that you can even start planning, right? And that's very, very challenging.
So, you have to wait. And you can do everything you want in the background, but you have no idea what's going to happen, once it actually goes down. But I have found, in terms of having experienced that, I experienced it at ClassPass and MindBody as well, a lot of companies don't want to necessarily pay someone from the outside to come in.
Like, Oh, we just have a lot to do. We'll get committees, right? Everyone's into these committees. What sometimes those companies don't realize is that people are, first of all, they're bringing very strong, loyal feelings for their company, which is really great that people feel that way, but also makes it very challenging to get anything done, right?
If someone at the table says, well, at Grubhub, we do this. And someone's saying, well, at Seamless, we do this, right? Think of the last time maybe you and a teammate or a partner were deciding between two things. Typically, when you can't decide, you choose some third, less desirable thing, right? Just because neither person wants to give up.
I recently had a project like this, where I was the project manager for an acquisition. I don't work at this company. I don't have skin in the game on either side of the brands. I'm here because there's a lot of stuff to get done and you need a dedicated resource who cares about it, who's just going to be open to learning everything about both companies and just figuring out.
What is the best foot forward? Not who has the best foot forward.
Beth Lawrence: Neutral third party is so important in a situation like that. And to your point, there's a lot of emotion and a lot of fear around mergers and acquisitions because it's unknown. You know, you have this, In some cases, really cushy job.
You love the people you work with. You love your office, you love your brand. And then all of a sudden there's this other brand coming in and you're like, wait a minute, I, I didn't sign up for this. I don't know anything about that. I can't imagine that it's easy for committees that are internal to both of these companies to really put that aside and make that decision, but I also can't imagine that it's easy for you to come in.
As that neutral third party and say, look, I got to see the forest through the trees here. We got to actually see what steps need to be taken. How do you go about that? If you can give me a little overview of, like, how would you go about that initial meeting of bringing everybody together around this common goal while also really, from a human standpoint, understanding where they're coming from.
Kerry Hoffman: I always start by meeting with people one on one, maybe someone is onboarding me into this role and they're ultimately responsible for the success of the project. I want to understand who are all of the stakeholders and let me sit down with them for 30 to 45 minutes to understand.
What they care the most about because that is the energy they are going to bring to the work to the meetings, to the action items is the thing that they care about, right? it would be the same if you were, you know, packing up your childhood home. And what are the only the 3 items that you can bring and understanding that piece of it?
You will then understand what's driving that person in the decisions that they're making or the input that they're giving and. In those meetings, a question I will ask people, what about this is keeping you up at night?
And that's a nicer way of saying, what are you so scared is going to slip through the cracks, you know, working on this at ClassPass and MindBody, the design team expressed we have so much work in Google Drive, and if we move over to Microsoft products, we just need to make sure that we don't lose access right to these documents.
Can you make sure that that is on your list? Right? That's what everyone says to me. Can you put this on your list? Because in their minds, we've hired Kerry. She's got a list. She won't forget it's on her list and that's my goal build out a list.
Maybe it has 297 items on it won't get to all of them. But that's what I start with. What should be on my list? What should I know about, what are you scared about? I'll put it on my list and take it off your list
Beth Lawrence: Yes, when type a or type a plus people have something on their list it is going to get done We will not forget about it Are you a physical list person in addition to Asana or are you all electronic?
Kerry Hoffman: I am all electronic, and my thing is that I just wanna be able to access my list everywhere that I go. The other piece of a physical list that doesn't work for me is I really. like the idea of adding something to my list for much later. And I mean, if this is not Type A, I don't know what is.
I was making a salad for a dinner party and I was cutting up tomatoes and had edamame and I put them in a bowl. I was like, Oh, this looks so good. Red and green. This is really Christmas looking. And then I went and wrote in this Asana task I have for November 30th for planning my holiday party at my apartment, like, tomato and edamame salad looks Christmassy, right?
That's just something really random that I want to remember. I'm not going to write that down because , how am I going to access that? In December.
And so occasionally if I'm feeling really stressed out, I'm like, what am I doing today? I might just write it down so I can look at it all day and be like, these are the four things to do. But I think that's the struggle that a lot of people have, is that they write their to do lists in like six different places and they don't actually know what they're supposed to do on any given day.
Beth Lawrence: Yes. And to your point, the time factor, if you want to remember this for November 30th, but you write it down on the piece of paper where you're writing your current recipes, you're never, ever going to remember that. That's a great point. And I love your point about being type A about salad, because if there's anything that I am type A about in my life. It's funny because my parents and my sister will tease me when we go on vacation because, when I chop a salad, everything has to be the same size, very, very type A about that. And I love that you think ahead enough to be like, Oh, I'm going to have a holiday party.
I need to put this task in for November 30th. That is what Airtable has enabled for me. And it's funny because I used to be. Both I would have both my physical and my digital and now I'm challenging myself to rely a lot more on the digital because I remember things. I can add things for later. I can flip back between bases in air table.
And if I'm working on one, but if I'm working on one event, but I get an idea for another, it's not two completely different places. I really, really love that approach to it. I think that's very smart.
Kerry Hoffman: I think too often people think that what they're doing is totally unique, and they won't need that information again, right? Maybe you go on a trip to Japan, and you're like, oh, this was great, and I probably won't go to Japan for ten more years, and there'll be different things to see and do, and I shouldn't, record anything that I did, it's not going to be relevant.
But I retro everything. Even a vacation, right? What went well, what didn't go well? What would I do differently next time? Because I could apply that to a different trip, right? That I go on where the circumstances are similar. I even encourage people when it comes to things, if you're someone who travels a decent amount, I mean, so many people, when they're traveling, they start to make a packing list, packing lists are not wildly different over time, right?
There's all of these basics that you need. And so on a rainy day. Make a packing list and then maybe have a few extra columns like this is for an outdoorsy trip. This is for a sightseeing trip, camping trip, you know, pool, vacation, ocean trip, and then you can just pull it together and then customize it.
I believe that there are templates for everything that you do in your life. And so that's what I have a spreadsheet for, for basically everything. And I spend a lot of time organizing my spreadsheets, which is how I pass the time.
Beth Lawrence: Oh my gosh. No wonder we need to be best friends ' cause I feel like we're definitely similar. I was just going to ask you what you're most type A about. of work, but it sounds like you're type a about a lot of things.
Kerry Hoffman: I created a rating system about two and a half years ago, I was riding a ski lift, very first time skiing. So I had a lot of time alone with my thoughts on the ski lift. And I thought, whenever I'm talking to people about a museum or restaurant, a movie, right?
I'm like, Oh yeah, it was good. And then I describe it at length and I'm not known for my brevity. And so I said, what would it be great if there was just a universal rating system. And then when I made my spreadsheets after we traveled somewhere, I have a spreadsheet of every Broadway show I've seen, I could just rate it using the same scale.
And so the scale is lightly inspired by Cold Stone Creamery, because it is, loathe it, leave it. Like it, love it, gotta have it. And now everything I do, there's a column in every spreadsheet where I rate that item. And so I've started to tell more people about it and I have a blog post about it. And it's been helpful because someone will tell me, Oh, I'm going on this trip.
What are the love it's of that trip? What are the gotta have its? And it just is an easy way over time to keep track of everything that you do without writing out what you thought about it.
Beth Lawrence: Listeners, I hope you're taking all of this. I hope now you're going to follow Kerry because of these tips sound incredible because it is hard, especially when you're not known for your brevity.
I'm the same way, if you're easily excited, right? Like I get very passionate and excited about things. And I think people see it as the same level of excitement, but There's definitely nuances to it. And I also think the benefit of hindsight after you travel when you're traveling, sometimes things can seem hyper, either stressful in the moment, hyper incredible in the moment.
And you don't actually get to go back and say, okay, was that really great? Was that worth the 300 that I spent on it? Or should I have gone to see, these view museums instead. I also wanted to ask you about your rent the runway type a approach, because I've never rented the runway because... it's intimidating to me. So I would love to hear your tips.
Kerry Hoffman: I have been renting the runway for four and a half years. I have a spreadsheet of everything I've rented with its rating. But rent the runway also does a decent job, they will start to make recommendations based on if you said you loved it, they'll show you more of that designer. The key to Rent the Runway, I like to think that Rent the Runway is actually very similar to freelancing because You get the opportunity to try a lot of different things, and not everything is going to be a perfect fit, but there's a lot you can wear for a little bit, right, and occasionally something is like, you can't even zip it, but most of the time you're like, oh I love this outfit, I would buy it if I could, or I can wear this a few times and send it back.
You start to learn from your spreadsheet, not only what designers work, but you can actually start to see like, oh, this is kind of stretchy on top. It'll probably fit. I can make it work, right? Or, Oh, this has adjustable straps. I can probably make that one work. Or my biggest tip start by renting things that are in the extra small, small, medium, and large versus numbers.
Because I find that clothes that are sized in the t shirt size are just going to be meant to fit more body types than the number. So you're more likely to have it kind of work. So I love it. I have like one backup dress. For the summer. So if my shipment is delayed, I can't go anywhere.
Beth Lawrence: That's such a great thought is go with the sizes that are naturally meant to have a little bit more range in them because. It can be frustrating even like the same brand, a six is not a six in two different things.
What was your favorite thing you ever rented from there?
Kerry Hoffman: I rented this, um, Ashley Park from Emily in Paris, she was in Mean Girls, she has a line of clothes.
Beth Lawrence: Oh yes, I love Ashley Park.
Kerry Hoffman: And she had this, vegan leather dress with a cutout in the middle. And I was going to a bachelorette party burlesque show in Brooklyn.
it was the quintessential, I would never own this dress because I wouldn't wear it enough. And two, it seems like it would cost a lot of money to clean. And so, cause that's the other thing with rent the runway, you just ship it back and they clean it, you don't clean anything, you don't go to a dry cleaner.
And so it's just, so many people say they don't do rent the runway. They're like, Oh, I don't have all these weddings to go to. I thought, yeah, but then when you have a fun night out, you can make it extra fun. Yeah. By renting something great versus combing through your closet to find the most burlesque outfit that you have.
Just rent something and then send it back.
Beth Lawrence: Or doing the thing that a lot of us used to do where we used to just buy something, wear it once or twice for the pictures, and then either donate it or sell it on Poshmark. And that's not a way. That I want to live in the world anymore. Fast fashion is not something that I want to contribute to if I can, so all wonderful tips and that sounds like so much fun. That bachelorette party in Brooklyn.
Kerry Hoffman: Yeah. And I'm going to the U S open and so I rented this like silly tennis shirt. And skirt. And if I didn't have rent the runway, I would just wear something that I own. I wouldn't think to buy an outfit to go watch tennis for five or six hours, but I like to say turn ordinary into extraordinary, right?
There's all of these things you do on a regular basis. And there are these little tweaks that you can just add that sparkle and it just makes it more memorable. Right?
Beth Lawrence: I always think like life is a costume party and I'm RSVP ing yes.
Like I love going with a theme. You know, if I'm going to the U. S. Open, I'm definitely wearing a tennis outfit. And if you're type A, you want to be. on theme. You want to, really go all out. And that is a wonderful reason to use rent the runway. And I think you may have just convinced me at least to try it. Let's make things a little bit more fun instead of buying a dress that you can maybe afford, but isn't your favorite and you'll only wear a few times. Love it. Yeah.
Kerry Hoffman: Holiday season is upon us. There's going to be enough between Halloween, Thanksgiving, all that stuff, but there's great things to rent. And there's a code on my website for 40% off for two months. To give it a try.
Beth Lawrence: I'm so glad that we did this. Between Felicity and fashion and all of the rest of it. If there's a listener that wants to get in touch with you, either because they identify with a lot of what you're saying, or maybe they want to hire you for something, how can they get in touch with you?
Kerry Hoffman: My website is SoVeryKerry. co. I'm on Instagram at @SoVeryKerry and LinkedIn, Kerry Anne Hoffman, but if you just, Remember nothing but type so very carry into, you know, your browser. You should be able to find me somewhere there.
Beth Lawrence: So smart. So very carry. Thank you so much, Kerry Hoffman for joining today and thank you listeners for joining us as well.
We will be back next week with a new episode of the type A plus podcast. Take care.
Kerry Hoffman: Thank you.